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anna

This is no time for backslapping, no time for marching bands

by anna at 05:03 PM on November 19, 2005

As I sat shivering in my darkened abode, a fierce hubbub raged down the street. Old white men spewed heated language, such as "pathetic," "petty," "undignified," and most loaded of all, "partisan." Fingers wagged and voices were raised. At one point a physical altercation almost broke out. No it wasn't the Japanese parliament, it was the US Congress. All those fightin' words were about the war in Iraq. Specifically whether or not, as one hawkish Dem proposed, US and British troops should be brought home now. Originally the Dems warmed to the idea. But then the Pubs laid a trap by proposing an immediate vote on just such a resolution. Dems screamed bloody murder, knowing no one on their right mind favors that.

So I am listening to the radio and somebody says George W Bush couldn't articulate his way out of a wet paper bag. I get to thinking, maybe he needs some help with his speechwriting about the war:

My critics liken the Iraq war to the quagmire in Vietnam. And I'll grant you that analogy. We are occupying a country that doesn't like us very much. It is full of foreign fighters who resort to all manner of sneaky tactics to avoid the brunt of the US military might. Viet Cong, Al Quada in Iraq, it's all the same. There is seemingly no end in sight. Public support is eroding fast. Body counts rise daily.

So let's take the analogy to its logical conclusion. What happened when we cut and ran in 'Nam? Within weeks those foreign fighters had overrun the country and established a nation governed by their ideology, communism. Which just happened to be our bitter foe at the time---just as Islamic extremists are now. 50,000 lives were thus lost for nothing.

If we abandon Iraq the same thing will go down. Al in Iraq will take over and establish the beginning of the extremist Muslim caliphate they all want. From there it is a mere hop skip and a jump to Europe. It's called the domino theory and Al leaders believe in it too. It is their stated goal. Shall we allow 3,000 American and British lives to be lost for nothing?

What about our vaunted military's reputation? If we lose in Iraq, our recent record will once again be blemished. Korea: fought to a standoff. 'Nam: lost. Beirut: lost. Powerhouses Haiti and Panama: won narrow goals. Save some college students and nabbed a drug dealer. Gulf War: won narrow goal of driving Iraq from Kuwait. War on Terror, pre 9/11: lost. Somalia: lost. War in Iraq: lost. Oh, and Britain beat mighty Argentina in 1982. Starts to sound like a paper tiger, no?

So many of you want to go back and dicker about how we got into this mess in the first place. Let me ask you this: Do any of you have a phone booth time machine like in Back to the Future? Can we change the past? Is there any point in dwelling on it then? What we have is the present, and that should determine the future.

Can we have that floor vote now?

comments (16)

Actually I managed to get a 1986 Mini Cooper up to 88 miles per hour and was zapped back in time, so it is possible. I wound up in Viking Jorvik for a few minutes, I think I hit two small children, and avoided a side stepping Dane Warrior before I travelled forward again and crashed into a central reservation in the city centre. At least, that's what I told police.

Why is it it's always one extreme or another when major things are happening, there are never any grey suggestions are there? Go to war or completely ignore the problem, bring back the troops or send more. Legalise this and ban that nationwide.

Over on this little island the masses are talking about arming every copper in the police force... or at the very least are shouting for more armed coppers, if not all, then more! This is because a female police was shot dead, and another wounded in Bradford when responding to a robbery.

My reaction wasn't: "Ooo, arm all the coppers now!" Nor: "More cops should have guns." But it was: "What the good fuck were two female officers doing responding to a robbery in the first place!?"

I had always thought that the UK police had a good thing going, they have always been a shining example of 'how to' and very rarely of 'how not to' police a nation. But when you send two middle aged women to the scene of a robbery, you're one completely inept organisation in my view. Surely the only units responding to robbery calls, not burglary, but robbery... should be armed response units! Chances are exceptionally good that the robbers are going to be armed in some way... they're not going to be using harsh language to get the cash from the manager or employees are they!? Ridiculous.

The guy/s that shot this officer are only partially responsible. The police force sending unarmed middle aged women, wearing all the bodily protection a day-glo jacket offers, to deal with a robbery... have surely got to share that blame.

I mean, WTF! Surely a robbery falls into the armed response territory! If not, what does? Standing outside of court houses for the cameras, and milling around the scene of a murder, with weapons in hand, AFTER your colleague has been shot and killed and her body shape chalked on the bloody pavement? I know who to call when I'm in trouble... and it won't be 999. If the best they can offer is a couple of middle aged women with telescopic nightsticks.

by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at November 20, 2005 11:13 PM


Crimson, that is really tragic. I hope the policy changes.

Anna, I feel like I should have an opinion about what you said, but for some reason I don't. I must not know enough about it anymore. It's off the list of things I have an opinion on. I'll try anyways. I don't know if our reputation is so blemished. No matter what happened in all those past conflicts, we still have very powerful armed forces and many reasons for countries to want to ally with us. We should probably not pull out of Iraq. But if we stay (I'm sure we will), we need to change what we're doing. If we do something different, casualties might either rise or fall, but if we don't we'll never know if we might have been able to make them fall. In one of my classes we read an article that said that insurgent forces don't always have the support of a population. Sometimes all they need is to bully the population enough so that they go along with their plans. I don't know if there's any way to tell, since we are not there, what the population really thinks. I don't know what they would think if we somehow magically got rid of every insurgent. Just leaving would definitely leave a power vacuum where the insurgents could run wild, and then we wouldn't have any control over what happens next there. If we stay we should probably work more on defeating the insurgents, but it's going to look terrible because a lot of jailing and cracking down will have to be done. Offhand I don't remember how people are doing economically over there. I suspect if economics stabilize and improve, and insurgents are prevented from intimidating ordinary people, support and even tolerance of insurgents will decrease. *But* it will probably take several years or even decades to see all that much change. And the whole time, we will need to be very involved in the government there. If we're going to do this right, I am thinking we will probably have to basically run Iraq for another 50 years at least.

I think we should do large amounts of culturally sensitive outreach to the population also. We don't need to convince them that democracy or the U.S. is great right now. We just need to show we're not a threat to the average person's daily well-being. Oh yeah, and we need to actually not threaten the average person's daily well-being. My two cents.
Not that it's a particularly close analogy, but look at Japan. They're still not allowed to have a standing army.

by jean at November 21, 2005 1:36 AM


An unarmed cop always struck me as ridiculous. But then I grew up in a country where everyone is armed to the teeth. Or at least the criminal element is. They'll shoot you if they like your down jacket.

We could have won in 'Nam and could still in Iraq. Problem is twofold: 1) We the public don't have the stomach for sustained casualties let alone internet beheadings. 2) It would have and likely will involve a scorched earth, kill 'em all mentality. We don't have the stomach for that either.

So declare victory and come on home. As Nixon said, Peace with Honor! Bah.

by anna at November 21, 2005 7:39 AM


Some of the Specials strutting around on weekends are quite simply power hungry knob heads in yellow jackets, from what I've seen of the majority. They provoke innebriated dickheads into doing something that'll get em arrested. No matter what the uniform, or the reputation, or the job of a man or woman... they're only human, and we humans tend to screw up. Humans with guns screwing up, that's not good. Shooting guys because they're wearing rucksacks, or because the test to become a police officer these days means your average dumbass can fly in and don the duds. Shootings'd be an all too frequent thing.

Female police officers... ahem.

I've seen a female copper spray mace into the face of her male colleague when the guy she was aiming for managed to slip out of the way. I was standing in the queue for a club and this little funny incident was happeing just across the street. It was like watching a comedy of who not to employ, and I don't wanna sound sexist but when it comes to policing streets against towering drunks, the WPC's just get in the way of their more able male counterparts. The British WPC's should be in positions to assist and calm victims, and well, that's about it. Half can't run for shit, none appear to have the physical attributes required for the job. At least, none I have seen. I mean, what happened to the minimum height and weight policies the Police once had? Half of the women (and men) are barely reaching five foot seven, are tubby little buggers, and I hate to say it but your average Johnny Weakling could floor one with a swing of his arm.

I'm all for equal rights, but some WPC's are simply everyday housewives with a bit of training, wearing a uniform, and generally giving the Police force the image of... I don't know what... but whatever it is, it makes your average teenage hooligan smirk. Every retired cop I've spoken to has been my height (six foot one) or much taller, and these guys have shovels for hands and could easily, even at age fifty-five, sixty, give me a run for my money in a scuffle. (I work out but these guys, after years of hauling criminals about, are butch sons of bitches.)

The officers currently walking the streets... most look like guys that have dropped out of college early, and not knowing what to do with themselves joined the police force. A few look like bouncers making their way up in the world, and fewer still look like the stereotypical, truly capable British bobbys. The ones that walk the streets with a purpose, wear the uniform like a second skin, look capable physically and normal enough to make them approachable. As for those low brow bouncer types, sporting a vocabulary equal to a gorrila's, um'ing and er'ing into their radios and looking every inch the criminal in a uniform... who'd trust in that?

My brother and I once called the police and fire service about a burned out car while we were out on the town, we waited about a hundred yards away for both to turn up and then my bro sprinted off: "Last to the pub gets em in!" The police that were there must have spotted us doing one because they came speedily after us, pulled up on the road beside us and got out pulling up their belts and puffing out their chests. Two low brow tubby fellas looking like even a lowly call to a burnt out vehicle gave them a rush of adrenaline they could barely handle. Breathing heavily and what have you. Mind ya, me and my bro are pretty imposing gym hitting rugby players, heh, toot toot.

"Okay."

They got back in the car and left. No, "Can we have your names?" That they might check us against the name we gave as we reported it. Nothing, they just drove off. I'd love to say we had torched that car and blagged the coppers. For all the cunning police work they did, and for all they knew, we could have. Idiots. Maybe me and my bro have honest features. Hey, if that's so, perhaps we should consider becoming criminals. :)

by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at November 21, 2005 3:02 PM


I tried doing an arrow in the above lengthy OT comment pointing to the 'toot toot' which read: 'that was my own horn.' And after it I went on to explain that the two cops asked what me and my bro were doing there, and that we said we'd reported the burning car and were just heading back to the pub... and then the: "Okay."

Won't be doing any funky arrows in future me thinks. :P

by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at November 21, 2005 3:37 PM


I tried doing an arrow in the above lengthy OT comment pointing to the 'toot toot' which read: 'that was my own horn.' And after it I went on to explain that the two cops asked what me and my bro were doing there, and that we said we'd reported the burning car and were just heading back to the pub... and then they said:

"Okay."

I won't be doing any funky arrows in future me thinks. :P

by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at November 21, 2005 3:38 PM


Eee and bah... I even checked to see if the first one had gone in, refreshed a few times, it hadn't, it didn't appear, so I posted it again. Lo there do I see two posts. Dammit.

by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at November 21, 2005 3:40 PM


Don't worry about the double post. It happens all the time. That's interesting information about the cops. It's a great description, too. I never run around cops. Why ask for it, right? But in Britain it's not asking for it. How different.

Several weeks ago some people got pulled over by cops on the street between campus and a block of brownstones. I passed by with some classmates, and just as we got close one of them said, "Don't do it Jean! Don't run!"

by jean at November 21, 2005 7:16 PM


Oh yeah... Anna-- pretty much. But you said it in fewer words.

by jean at November 21, 2005 7:19 PM


I know what you mean. I think that must be the general feeling everywhere concerning the police and completely law abiding citizens: "Just stay out of their way, don't do anything wrong, everything should be good. But just in case, make a fine point of avoiding them or else they may screw up and nab you for something you didn't do." Surprising how long a debate me and my brother had before we eventually did report the burning car. And the glance exchanged between us was one of: "Here we go." When the police did tear up beside us. A fear of being done for something we didn't... that's what kept us a hundred yards away from the scene, lol.

The police have always made me nervous, I just can't put my trust into a uniform. S'like, uh, going to a football or rugby match. You have to rely on the other 70,000 people to not ignore the signs of where to walk and sit, and whatever. A group over here starts freaking out because some guy has pushed a kid ahead, the kid's dad tries to get forward to grab him, pushed somebody else, everybody starts moving in directions they're not supposed to and pretty soon you find yourself pressed against a seat by a few dozen bodies. Getting out of the stadium just last week when Britain played Australia in the Tri-Nations was an absolute nightmare!

You have to rely on the copper being good at his job, but looking at the face between the epaulettes its hard not to think that this dumb ass is gonna haul you into a wagon and slam you into the cells for the night just for being within twenty feet of a fight that broke out in the centre of town. I've been involved in fights in the town before, when squadies are marauding the area and generally grabbing the asses of females we know. And then standing solid as if they're gods and untouchable by us city guys. But I have been a bystander 99.9% of the time, and you should see how the watching crowd disperse when the police arrive. No fervent witnesses to a crime here, no sir, not in this crowd of a hundred or more people... don't arrest us, sir.

When two cops turn up at your house after seeing you drive away from the shops without putting your seatbelt on, losing your car in the tangle of roads, and then calling in your reg number to discover your home address so that they can turn up and warn you about wearing your seatbelt in future. You have to ask: "Is there nobody being raped right now? No robberies perhaps, muggings, racial assaults, car thefts, murders maybe... ? Uh... Thanks for the warning guys, keep fighting the good fight. 'Clunk click, that's the trick is it?' Thanks again."

by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at November 22, 2005 3:27 PM


Everybody runs...

by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at November 22, 2005 3:27 PM


In restaurants I still make a habit of sitting with my back to the far wall lest I be assasinated or ambushed by the police. A holdover from different times, I suppose. My wife thinks I'm crazy.

by anna at November 23, 2005 8:06 AM


Is that considered strange? I do it. Though not because of any fear of assassination. I just like to know what's going on around me, and if conversation starts to flag you can pass comments on the appearance of other diners to fill the gaps.

by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at November 25, 2005 10:44 PM


My wife and I still fight over who gets the seat by the wall. You never know when some one will come up behind you and try to give you lead poisoning in your head. By the way she always wins. But she does promise me she will tell me if some unsavory character is heading my way. Ain't love grand!

Don't you know that running by the cops is like running by a dog. They just have to give chase, it's in their blood.

by Long Time Lurker at November 26, 2005 1:10 PM


Consider this: You see a black man running down the street with a plasma TV. You assume he's stolen it. You see a white man doing the same thing and it's a new exercise fad.

by anna at November 28, 2005 10:13 AM


It is. Yogilates is so over.

by jean at December 2, 2005 9:41 AM