« like a bitch makin' heat, beatin' on my chest, lickin' at my feet | Main | only innocents need apply »
i gotta find why you always go when the wind blows, tell me you're crazy maybe then i'll understand
by mg at 07:57 AM on January 04, 2005
Can there possibly be any better of a recruiting call for atheism/agnosticism than the Asian Tsunami?
There is not one possible scenario in which such a mind-numbingly awful event could take place and would leave room in my heart to believe in a god, or at least believe in a god I’d love and want to worship.
If I’m supposed to believe that there is a loving God, what possible reason would he* have for killing 150,000 people? I’m willing to accept that if there is a god his intelligence is so far different than my own that explaining his reasoning for this would equivalent to someone trying to explain to me the success of Charlie Sheen’s career.
But, even with that in mind I can’t understand why a loving, parental god would kill his children. It doesn’t even matter that I’m a new father myself, because I’m pretty sure a year ago I wouldn’t have been able to think of a lesson important enough to teach one of my children that I’d have to kill another child. Sending them on a “time out” or “straight to bed without desert” makes sense as a punishment, but it is safe to say that drowning will never be part of my parental tool-kit.
Maybe your god is a vengeful, Old Testament sort of a God, rather than that wishy-washy, blue state, New Testament Jesus. In that case, why would anyone but a Gwar fan want to worship such a god? You’d have to live your life constantly in fear. “Am I praying enough?”, “Should I be tithing 10% before or after taxes?”, “Have I sacrificed enough young goats this month?”, etc.
With a god like an alcoholic parent, you’d never know when the hammer was going to fall, and god was going to come along and burn you with a cigarette butt or submerge you and your entire village under 100 feet of water. Loving someone who may, for no apparent reason, go off and start wailing on you like Ike Turner is the stuff of a Lifetime movie, not the foundation for a religion.
Another situation would be an ambivalent god. Now, this is a god I understand. If you were an omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient and a host of omni-other thinged being, what interest would my life hold for you? You could be watching Jimi Hendrix, Chuck Berry, and Franz Liszt jamming in heaven. You could be hanging out in every Sorority shower in the entire universe, at once. You could have time to watch all the shows you’ve Tivoed. Why would you take any sort of a personal involvement in my life?
An ambivalent god makes sense in me. But like I’ve always said about pretty girls, if they don’t want nothing to do with me, I don’t want nothing to do with them.
I’m guessing there aren’t a lot of religious people who read this site, but are there any out there among you who can come up with some sort of an explanation why your god would want to kill 130,000 people and injury hundreds of thousands more? I’d really like to know how you can reconcile such horror with a god you’d want to serve.
* I would be politically correct and say “she/he” but seriously, if there is a god, how could it not be a man?
comments (31)
God ROCKS!!!
by Eviltom at January 4, 2005 12:07 PM
I was watching Sky News yesterday and the figure for missing and dead was dropping and rising constantly. 148,768 People dead! 192,561 People dead! I had to ask my friend if I'd misread it having just crawled out of bed I thought my eyes were a little messed up. But no, they'd been doing it since day one.
Then said news channel started to do the: "Gotta appeal to our audience," thing by listing the missing persons from European countries. Ridiculous tiny numbers like: '12'! Italians still missing! '4' Swiss still unaccounted for! Four!? A hundred and fifty thousand people are dead, and they're reporting that the Gruber family haven't reported in to the embassy yet! Outrageous! People go missing everyday and they get no airtime at all. Sky News had three correspondents working on it. All basically saying: “Well, it’s mess, and aid is still coming in.”
Studio: “Describe the atmosphere there, how do the people seem around you?”
Correspondent: “Erm, erm, well… Er… *looks around* Well er… Most look to be in a state of shock, and there are still families blah blah…”
Describe the atmosphere!? Lmao all the way to roflsville! I think those studio questions are supposed to be what the audience want answered… I was thinking: Aren’t there soldiers fighting somewhere, isn’t there a war going on? Where the feck are your war correspondents. 18 Marines died yesterday eh! But no, lets give the Gruber’s another slot at 9a.m.
Lmao, madness!
But then it wne ton to say: 2,488 Swede's missing, and I immediately thought of Sweden sporting the highest paedophile count in all of Europe, producing more child porn than any other country... 2,488 paedophiles exploiting Thai kids for porn movies. Maybe God's hand is just a little too large and with a ready backhand he accidentally catches several of his kids at once.
Innocent kid: “Ow daaaaad I wasn’t doing anything! It was him!” *ponts* *sob*
Guilty Kid: *nurses head*
God: “Shut up or you’ll get another.” *holds up and hovers his slap hand over the head of the complaining kid*
Innocent Kid: “So unfair!” *sulk*
Perhaps he couldn't be arsed trying to pinpoint the exact location of the paedophiles and decided, “Fuck it, I'm gonna Tsunami their asses!”
by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at January 4, 2005 1:48 PM
Well, as I see it, God gave us free will and the earth to live on. The Garden of Eden was a perfect place where nothing bad would happen until Adam and Eve were expelled into the cruel harshness of reality as we know it for not following simple directions. We, as imperfect beings, fucked up the Garden of Eden just as we are fucking up the planet earth with global pollution, wars, et. al. A lot of this current tragedy could have been avioded with technology that is readily available today. How about a tsunami warning system if you know there is even a chance of it happening? Japan seems to have their shit together. Everyone is wringing their hands and crying about how sad it is that this happened but much of it could have been averted. I feel for the people that died or are suffering but damn, if I'm on the beach and the ocean suddenly recedes a few hundred yards or so I'll be running my ass off for high ground, not collecting fish or staring in disbelief. Something is seriuosly wrong and every red flag in your skull should be going up. Where is your common sense or basic sense of survival? I think it's more humankind's fault than God's fault. The people who were near the epicenter now, there was not much they could do but to blame it all on God seems a little off.
by Ezy at January 4, 2005 1:56 PM
Look I agree with MG. Not only would a just God intervene to prevent such madness if He was so smart he'd have rigged things as such so that this wouldn't happen. The scope of the misery is unimaginable.
But the most sickening thing is that those Thai sex trader-pedophile guys are viewing all these new orphans as a BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY. I only hope there is a wrathful God to deal with them.
by Anna at January 4, 2005 7:22 PM
Let's face it... There are no deities watching over us. *sings* “We're all aloooone... There's no one herreee beside us.” The sooner we grow up as a species and stop believing in fairy tales the sooner we'll be mature and responsible enough to drink the peace alcohol.
I think that was MG’s point. It was yet another one of those examples of Gods non-existence, which only blind faith and an idiotic sense of self can swat aside, perhaps with the age old, “He works in mysterious ways.”
"THERE IS NO GOD!"
When people stop being afraid of that simple little statement, that's when everything will become hunky dorey. Bibles and religious parchments should be behind glass in museums. We should be looking at them with wonder saying: "Our ancestors had such small minds didn't they. Hard to believe they believed this stuff right into and through the 20th century."
by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at January 4, 2005 9:22 PM
$50 USD per Child... Now after the crackdown, there's going to be a quick selloff to clean inventory knocking the price down to $25 until Feb... once the media is off this 'tip', the supply will be so dwindling that the price is going up to $75 in March...
...So buy low now, and flood the market at $75 for a %300 ROI in two months.
That is the facts. I'm not joking. I wouldn't joke about this deprivation of morality.
by LOCKHEED at January 4, 2005 10:50 PM
On what market are underage Thai prostitutes futures sold Lock?
Ezy: Do you actually believe in the Garden of Eden? Do you believe in the Easter Bunny too? Superman? I don't mean to belittle you, but I just don't understand how you could believe that. As a a parable, yes, I get it. But actual events? Do you believe in Noah's Ark, too? A seven day creation? The age of the earth in biblical terms (tens of thousands of years) vs. geological (billions)?
by mg at January 4, 2005 10:57 PM
Perhaps the largest market in the world: The Black Market. If you seriously counted the revenue and growth rates of the Black Market say, in the United States, it would add a whopping 30% to GDP.
by LOCKHEED at January 5, 2005 3:40 AM
I still believe in Santa too. Not really MG, I just thought it might get a rise out of you. I do believe that there is more after death than darkness and rotting in the ground. Whether it's exactly as described in the bible, I don't know. I think the Old Testament is a book of parables and maybe some are based on factual events but embellished quite a bit. The New Testament is easier for me to swallow but both were written by humans so what can that really tell you? All writers have their own styles and want to tell a good story I think. I believe that my relationship, between God and I, is personal. I don't believe in organized religion because it always gets twisted and perverted by human beings to fit plans of their own design. I take from religion what I interpret from what I read, not what someone tells me it should mean.
by Ezy at January 5, 2005 10:14 AM
Actually I've been following the search for Noah's Ark. It's at the bottom of the Dead Sea, which for some reason has freshwater on top and briny water on the bottom. So the damn thing is down there in fine shape even though it's wooden. And they think it wil be much less impressive that it's made out to be, kind of like the minor local flood he was fleeing with his own farm and ranch animals. Probably much smaller than the recent tsunami but bigger than streams jumping banks after a heavy rain. And no God, just heavy rains and local flooding.
As for Adam and Eve, I am more interested in Lillith, his headstrong second wife.
by Anna at January 5, 2005 6:25 PM
That's funny I was watching a similar thing and a bunch of experts claim to have found it residing at the top of the a mountain.
by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at January 5, 2005 7:10 PM
That's funny I was watching a similar thing and a bunch of experts claim to have found it residing at the top of a mountain.
by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at January 5, 2005 7:11 PM
Damn, I hit the stop button as it loaded to post and I spotted the added 'the', too late it seems. :(
by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at January 5, 2005 7:12 PM
So Ezy, are you or aren't you a Christian? Its hard to tell from your comments. I'm having dinner tomorrow night to wish a bon-voyage to a friend who is joing the seminary. Depending on the atmosphere, I may take the opportunity to grill her on why she'd want to be in service of a God who could be such a jerk sometimes.
by mg at January 6, 2005 12:04 AM
I don't know if I'd consider myself a Christian in the sense most people define them as. I do believe in God and in Jesus and that there is a life after death. Whether it is the biblical versions of heaven and hell or something altogether different, I'm not sure. I have had one family member, my Grandmother, who had a heart attack and died for three minutes. She told me she was in a field with people all around her then heard a voice say "It's not your time yet Faye" and that was the exact moment they revived her. My Grandmother would never lie to me so I base some of my faith on this. I just think that God gave every one of us free will to live our lives as we see fit. The earth is an ever changing environment and there have always been natural disasters. I would blame the governments of all of the nations affected for not doing anything to prevent something like this from happening. That was a decision of free will on their parts. You might say "What about the babies that die of AIDS or are born addicted to a drug " or some other seemingly senseless tragedy. Well, most of the time, decisions we make affect others negatively such as the mother who allows herself to have unsafe sex or do drugs while pregnant. Is it fair? I don't know. I don't think I'll find out until I am dead but then again, maybe not. My choice to believe in God might be unwise but then again it might not be.
by Ezy at January 6, 2005 12:40 AM
If there is a God, which I with every particle of my being doubt, I'm gonna give ‘it’ my best 'oops' grin if I end up in a green field and the voice says, "Yup, it's your time matey!"
I'll blame being possessed by the spirit of Jezebel for my forcing doubts onto those whom I consider 'the afraid'.
by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at January 6, 2005 1:16 AM
You may find this interesting, it's from Emerald City. Read it all, obviously, but take note of the curate compared to the narrator. :)
I can't do the nifty link thing so it's a cut and paste job.
http://www.emcit.com/emcit028.shtml#Wells
I'm vanishing for a few days, had an expedition to Northern Ireland offered to me and I'm gonna take it up. :) You guys and gals take care eh! *listens to the cheers as he exits* Heh.
by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at January 6, 2005 4:43 AM
The other day I was reading the paper and it said "brought wrought havoc upon." Obviously an editor intervened and thought wrought was better than brought. But he forgot to delete brought. That's how I feel about the spelling of "tsunami." They couldn't decide between "tunami" and "sunami" so they compromised. Maybe "tunami" sounded too much like a sushi thing and "sunami" like a deli meat.
by Anna at January 6, 2005 7:42 AM
Hmm. I DID just stumble onto this site the other day, just as the tsunami-shit was going down. I saw this post and hung around to see what others had to say.
My only contribution might be that it appears life is suffering, and maybe that's part of the point. I know there's the argument that 'wouldn't a loving god prevent it' and 'a smart god would have his rocks together enough to make a world where it didn't happen', but then we fall down the same slope that suggests life would be easier if we were all the same, and had no problems, and life was candy and cake.
Don't get me wrong. I love me some candy and cake.
But if I didn't eat shit once in a while, it wouldn't taste nearly as good.
I think it was EZY who had a good point, that we cause a HELL of a lot of our own suffering, and that of others too. But the universe kinda runs on it's own, and bad stuff happens. Not fair, not nice, but reality.
And if god allows bad things to happen, that doesn't mean that god likes for them to happen. Sometimes you have to let bad things happen to your kids, so they can make decisions and choices for themselves. Yeah, that leads right back to "a god that kills his own kids', but we do all have to die at some point. And I sure can't think of a way around that one. Maybe god as a parent isn't always the clearest analogy.
Eh, I'm probably just talking to myself. But you have a nice page with interesting people and topics. I may keep lurking around.
by MOCONNELL at January 9, 2005 11:30 PM
What, do tell, is the clearest analogy? God is a watcher, an observer? I wonder, were you expecting this debate to go down a path never previously trampled by mortal men? lol, were we going to give a perception of God that would strike others as 'the truth'? Or hit on a new perception of said deity that in thousands of years mankind has somehow missed?
This God chit-chat is older than my aunt Janice, and damn she is old! And religion has survived the coming of science, space exploration, and ever-surfacing irrefutable schools of thought and logic, which defies the very essence of religion. Religion has survived not because the concept is particularly great, nor because those heading these creeds are extremely clever people... But simply because humans have been afraid since their conception as 'the' race on the planet... It's a lot of responsibility being the smartest thing on a world... So, to duck out of it we create something greater than ourselves. We bask in the idea that whatever is happening is part of a great plot which we with our tiny mortal minds could never comprehend. We've created something to blame when shit goes wrong, and something to take heart in when we're down or alone. We’ve created a monster... Dun dun dun! ... And the only place it exists in our heads... Dun dun dun! Making us the monsters! Dun dun dun!
It's a sad and sorry story but we're one pathetic species. :)
by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at January 10, 2005 4:53 AM
No, I suppose I wasn't expecting some new perception of God that'd have the earth rejoicing - "That's it!" I was kinda just looking for that for myself. But, I shouldn't have expected so much from ya'll. No, you are beautiful and wise people, I'm sure, but to ask about resonable explanations of God from what is inherently an anti-establishment group (and what could be more "establishment" than god?) was probably wishful thinking.
by mg at January 10, 2005 8:03 AM
Sorry, Em Jee, I was asking MOCONNELL... I thought you'd said what you'd said to make the point: "Hello, God?" ... ... ... *several years later lying on a death bed* ... ... ..."No? Ah well."
Which was done quite well, me thinks. Anyone trying to counter your comment with a plausible explanation had to fall back on having faith. Always a good sign that the initial 'God Question' was a good one. :)
Heh heh, I was watching FOX News today... I love how they keep reminding their viewers: "We're fair and balanced." After the tenth time they said it I grew suspicious, and after the twentieth time I simply stopped believing that they were. It's like having a stranger tell you he's honest, again, and again, and again... You'd have to doubt his sincerity, or at least advise him in how to appear humble.
by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at January 10, 2005 9:55 AM
I hear you Crimson NCO. If someone has to tell me they are honest or fair and balanced then I'm immediately on guard. Why, if you are honest or fair and balanced, would you ever have to state the obvious? Prove that shit to me through actions, don't just blow smoke up my ass.
Well, MG, this probably wasn't the best place to to find and have a debate with a run of the mill bible thumper. Even those of us who believe, speaking for myself here, have reasons that are very personal and are anti-establishment. Anything that humans play a large part in the making of, ie. the establishment, is unnerving to me. I have a hard time trusting people, imperfect beings that we are.
by Ezy at January 10, 2005 3:08 PM
I never believe good things that people say about themselves anymore either.
MOCONNELL, your comment was very interesting and I hope you stick around! Buddhists have a lot of teachings about suffering, and they've concluded that pain is inevitable, but that suffering is not. So I'll throw that in as my two cents.
Sorry for the long absence, everyone. :( I've been busy, but I can't take not having my daily routine anymore, so here I am!
by jean at January 11, 2005 12:51 AM
Well, Crimson, I agree with you. We are indeed a very sorry species. The lengths to which we go to get away from responsibility and genuinely caring about other people is amazing. Every wall, each sarcasm, all the logical reasons for screwing anyone without your game plan, yup...the lengths we go to avoid each other...sorry. I didn't mean to get so bitter. It is easier to get angry when you're hurt than any other reaction (no, crimson, you didn't hurt me, it's that metaphorical 'why oh why' hurt).
And no, I probably don't have any ideas that are new to the universe, but maybe somebody out there has an idea new to you. Isn't that why you're here?
That's why I am. It's all new to me. Talk away! I'm listening! All ears over here!
Thank you Jean. I think I'll take a few good hours to look through the site before posting again. Everything I've read so far is usually pretty interesting. G'nite.
by MOCONNELL at January 11, 2005 1:19 AM
Yea, stick around MOCONNELL. We usually have some pretty interesting discussions/debates around here. Welcome.
by Ezy at January 11, 2005 10:37 AM
I'm here because I googled for Action Force (G.I Joe) for some imagery for a flash cartoon I'm working on, and some other, not so important smile-away nostalgic reasons. :) Of all the sites I found while googling that long night this one struck me as a place in which I can cyber squat. :D (Obviously I wasn't looking for it.) I've read more here in the past two weeks than I have from fiction and non-fiction I've been churning my way through. The archives are heaving with funny material and frantic, sad, sarcastic, satirical observations... It's a fantastic read. More than half of it could be crammed into a book, which I think plenty of people would laugh their way through.
Blog sites are usually the ramblings of some person who recites the events of their day, but makes no observations and asks no questions. This isn't... Usually blog sites are 'My Homepages' in disguise, a place for people telling anybody who'll listen all about their family, and their job, and their kids, posting pictures of their dog Rover and their last holiday in... Disney Land Paris!
I don't know what you meant by, 'Why oh why hurt'. And I wasn't taking a shot at you, really...
Damn! I was just about to say I'm a nice guy... But after my comment on folk who say such things I'll have to resign myself to just trudging on...
... So I apologise for my tone-in-font. :)
MOCONNELL: "Every wall, each sarcasm, all the logical reasons for screwing anyone without your game plan, yup...the lengths we go to avoid each other...sorry."
Sounds like you're having a rough time of it, so again I apologise. :) I just wondered with you saying that you were going to stick around to see where this thread ended up whether you really were expecting something new to fall onto the subject. I took for granted that most of my time is spent collaring eldars from Johovah Witness temples and questioning their beliefs to their faces - hey, they knock on my door so I knock on theirs - armed with dates as to when the Witness movement was conceived and in doing and after a loooong discussion, enjoying the fact that their faction of Christianity is the least defendable. They’re like nasty nightmare bogey men preying on peoples homes, rapping on doors until finally somebody in a quiet state of unhappiness and depression answers and then they’re in… *pounce*
Meaning I spend a lot of time talking about this crap, and every time I have it’s ended up on the same path of: Faith versus ‘ ’. Maybe you don’t. Bah… I rambling eh.
by Ex Crimson Guard NCO at January 11, 2005 1:26 PM
My wife grew up a Jehovah's Witness. They fucked her up in so many ways that I hope they come knocking on my door one day. I have some things to say.
by Ezy at January 11, 2005 2:45 PM
I guess I just lost interest in this one. But in all that verbiage I do see that reference to Fox's "fair and balanced" nonsense. No media is fair or balanced, it's the nature of the beast. But I have heard that damn Bill O'Reilly prattling on about himself and all these people who feel the need to launch personal attacks and hurl insults at him. He makes it out like he doesn't do the exact same thing every day. I wish someone would remove his larynx and toss it in a gutter like John Wayne Bobbit's dick.
by Anna at January 16, 2005 9:27 AM
Ifeel really bad about what happened in Indonesia
by michelle at February 1, 2005 4:58 PM
I am 17 years old. I just graduated from high school. (which by the way was too much drama). My old best friends from there are no w my new enemies. Why? Because they believed in rumors and because by the end of the year I spot talking to them (because the are hypocrits and when they do something wrong I would always forgive them) and now they think I'm starting the rumors they tell them everyday and blame it on me. I wish they could leave me alone. But I cant find the answer. I tried moving, I tried to stop talking to them, and I've tried reason things out. But nothing ever works with them. Its like when I do something wrong (its rally bad Im going to hell (they say) but when they do something bad oh no its a mistake god will forgive me) I cant stand them. I changed my e-mail 5 times already and they just seem to find my information and change my password. Im tired I wish I would of never meet them. I know this might seem a little problem but put ur self on my shoes. Theres a 89 % of teens that do suicide. Because of drama and teenagers in high school. I just asking for advices if u guys have hearts and believe in god?
by alexis at December 11, 2005 3:12 PM