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In the days we sweat it out on the streets of a runaway American dream
by anna at 06:47 PM on October 14, 2004
If there's one common theme around here it may be a mistrust of formal religion. In his last entry MG championed science over blind faith. Adam describes himself as a secular guy. We know that being an agnostic is (or was) one criteria Linz uses to evaluate a potential suitor. Ezy even turned down sex with the voodoo chick based in part on her beliefs.
Speaking of offbeat belief systems, what's up with Hollywood. You've got Madonna touting the virtues of Kabala, a watered-down version of Judaism none too popular with real Jews. Go to the local Scientology meeting and there's Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Lisa Marie Presley, Kelly Preston and heap-big Kirstie Alley. Why can't these stars go in for regular religions?
After all, it is beyond question that traditional religion has exerted a positive influence on society. It provides solace to millions. It enriches otherwise dreary lives. It gives people something constructive to do. It can deter crime and other aberrant behavior. There's a certain serenity in being a religious believer. And if it's true, it can keep you from being burned to a crisp in the infernal bowels of hell.
But there's a huge downside. You had the Crusades, bloody wars that would drag on hundreds of years in a time when lifespans were barely 40. Catholics and Protestants have been at each other's throats since the Reformation through all the nastiness in Northern Ireland. Jews and Muslims tussle over disputed areas in and around Israel. Hindus and Muslims clash over the Kashmir region between Pakistan and India. Even within a given faith there can be schisms. Catholics won't let non-Catholics take commonion. Orthodox Jews look down on regular Jews. Sunni Muslims call Shiites "pig people" and seek to repress them or worse.
By far the most violent and diabolical sect is the Muslims. Since 1972 they've slaughtered the Israeli Olympic squad, taken hundreds of hostages in Iran, blown up a Marine barrack in Lebanon, leveled two apartment towers in Saudi Arabia, downed a plane over Scotland, perpetrated the first Trade Center attack, decimated two American embassies, gouged a gaping hole in the USS Cole, devastated an Israeli pizzaria and buses, killed thousands of innocents on Sept 11, laid seige to a Moscow theater, derailed a packed train in Spain, committed genocide, rape and pillaging in Sudan, blasted crowded nightclubs in Bali and Germany, leveled a consulate in Turkey, stoned adulterers, hacked off thieves' hands, beheaded a dozen folks on the Web and incinerated hundreds of helpless children elsewhere in Russia. We've thwarted the shoe-bomber, dirty bomber, a plot to blow up LAX on the millenium changeoever and countless suicide bombers in Israel. All in the name of Allah.
Considering all this, on balance, is this world better or worse off for the existence of organized religion? That's the question.
comments (12)
You know what, you are right. We should get rid of religion. Without religion, what other reason would people have to rape, steal, molest, murder, and etc?
Oh right, that whole human nature thing, never mind.
by mg at October 14, 2004 10:00 PM
Actually I don't know. I took the whole 9/11 tragedy so hard that I don't think I'd have ever gotten past it without church. The question is whether the good outweighs the wicked.
by anna at October 15, 2004 9:38 AM
You know, I don't think religion is really the problem here. You read the book, whatever book that may be, and interpret what you read for yourself. I think it is humankind that is the problem here. When you get different people reading passages of scripture not everyone is going to interpret it the same way. When that happens you get splinter groups of the religion teaching what they believe the scripture means. This can vary widely as anyone can see. Do I think all muslims are evil and out to get us? No, I don't. I, honestly, don't personally know any muslims but would bet my life that large groups of them are just as outraged at the atrocities committed by a few, in the name of their religion, as we are. People will use religion to their own means. Don't like Americans, well then you can kill them in the name of God. Now you're waging jihad and not just committing murder. You also get 72 virgins and paradise if you get killed trying. It's a win, win situation. Religion isn't the problem here, it's people. Hell, if I really tried I could probably read the bible, twist a passage, and come up with a justification for killing anyone I wanted. Does that make it right or is it the true meaning of the passage? No, but in my twisted mind it could be. I could probably also attract followers if I brushed up on my charm and persuasive skills. Just look at those idiots, Heaven'e Gate, that killed themselves when Halleys comet passed us by. Case in point. If Marshall Applewhite can pull it off, why not me?
by Ezy at October 15, 2004 9:58 AM
I think it would be a huge step in the right direction if reputable Muslim leaders would step up and say look, Allah-dammit these damn terrorists are not extremist Muslims, they are just criminal thugs and we denounce them and forbid them from entering any mosque ever. That's a start.
And Ezy I do agree with you. Problem is we can't very well get rid of all the people. Heaven's Gate = funny thing. I have a picture of Do on my desk.
by anna at October 15, 2004 10:09 AM
You missed one, Anna; there was this muslim fucker who accosted me at a diner on Amsterdam Ave, because I didn't give him a large enough tip. He forgot my soda and a fucking fork to eat my shepard's pie, and then he has the gall to yell at me for more USD? In the name of Allah!
by LOCKHEED at October 15, 2004 10:26 AM
Are you sure he wasn't a Sikh? One of them got mistaken for a Muslim in LA right after 9/11. He got shot. The Sikhs and Muslims aren't on the best of terms either.
by anna at October 15, 2004 11:04 AM
Yea, I agree with you there Anna. Muslims who don't subscribe to the fanatical jihad crowd could stand up and denounce them publicly. That would probably do a lot for tolerance. Their silence could seem like acceptance to some. Those who are just looking for a reason to hate will definitely take it for acceptance. I wonder why that hasn't happened?
What does Allah have to do with tipping? Is there a rule for that? If you don't tip at least 15% it's clear grounds for jihad?
by Ezy at October 15, 2004 11:22 AM
Actually, it's a LAW in ISLAMIC culture not to earn or charge INTEREST. Same with some fanatical Jewish sects.
P.S. Feel free to comment on ANYTHING on my Blog. I mean ANYTHING. NO CENSCORSHIP ala Mikey G. SO if we need to quarrel on a subject from BADSAM, we can do it on my Blog.
www.tradinganddrugs.blogspot.com
by LOCKHEED at October 15, 2004 2:05 PM
Hmmmmmm. Someone's not playing by the rules. I guess they have just been westernized by the evil American infidels.
by Ezy at October 15, 2004 2:40 PM
Generally I feel comfortable enough with the fact that the majority of humans seem to crave religion, or at least some vague notion of a god, in order to make it through an otherwise ultimately meaningless existence, despite the fact that I personally am content (or as well content as one can be) with my humanness, and specifically the very human tendency to make myself insane at times over the utter meaningless of it all. Every once in a while though, I do get angry at people, even the ones whose religion is so seemingly benign, people like my mom who "don't-really-believe-in-god-but-sort-of-do-like-to-pretend-to-sometimes-cause-it-makes-me-feel nice" kinds of people. While it bothers me a little that people are okay with lying to themselves, I think I'm even more concerned with the validation it gives the more fundamentalist members of their respective religions- that millions of people act as the masses from whom their leaders get their legitimacy, when in fact they don't truly believe. But who am I to talk, I still feel the need to show up for services once a year in September and reaffirm for the world and myself that despite how I think or feel I'm still a Jew.
Interresting timing for this post to come up; I've just in the last couple of days been checking out the Humanist websites. I think that they offer as good a deterrent to murder, cheating, stealing, etc as any religion does.
by rebekah at October 16, 2004 7:14 PM
Anna, Muslims have been denouncing terrorist acts by other Muslims all along... I searched on Google News for articles and found a bunch here, although they are mixed in with more negative articles. It's happening; it's just not making the headlines.
And aren't fundamentalist Christians sometimes just as scary? Like the ones that form cults and let the men father children by young girls. And the ones that kill doctors who are performing abortions. The war on terror doesn't include them. The Nazis weren't Muslim, and neither was Joseph Stalin. But they both killed a lot of people. Many, many more than Muslims have recently in what people generally call "terrorism".
I think that it is just a part of human nature. Murders and wars have always happened. I remember from history class that Rome destroyed Carthage in the Third Punic War, and then spread salt on the ground so crops could never grow again. Now that is pretty vicious, and it was millenia ago.
by jean at October 16, 2004 8:48 PM
Rebekah you put it better and more succintly than I could. Jean, I know that some do speak out against the thuggery. My problem with it is that it isn't loud or insistent or dismissive enough. And they always have to throw in a dig against Israel or say something stupid about the "root causes" of terrorism." The root causes of almost all bad behavior is simply that fact that the people who do it are screwed up in the head. The reason they're that way is their own fault, nobody else's. I'd love to hear a mullah go, "Anyone who has any sympathy for Al Quada whatsoever should be shot on sight. They will be if they set foot anywhere near my mosque." It's also important to differentiate between the different sects. Generally Shiites and Sunnis are good, tolerant people. Almost without exception the Wahhibis (Taliban, Osama, Zawahiri and the state-sanctioned religion of our pals in Saudi Arabia) are the opposite.
by anna at October 17, 2004 10:20 AM