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Your Other War
by anna at 07:58 AM on March 28, 2003
The bloody fight with Iraq has overshadowed the all-important War on Muslim Terrorism lately. But I, your faithful correspondent, have continued to scour the back pages for news about the latter. Frankly, the Iraq deal is starting to numb my senses.
Here's the latest: Zacarias "Can I Buy A Consonant" Moussaoui has maintained all along that while he is a member of Al Qaeda, he played no role in the Sept 11 debacle. Thus, arguably, he doesn't deserve the death penalty. Now it turns out that the two masterminds of the plot have corraborated his story. They both say he was in the US as part of a second wave of airborne attacks, possibly to involve biological weapons.
US prosecutors are much chagrined at this news, because conspiracy to commit murders that haven't occured yet isn't punishable by death. But I myself am elated at hearing this. It means that authorities may have stymied our foes' efforts to perpetrate Sept 11 II. So why wouldn't they now approach this dick and offer him a deal: Freedom for information on his co-conspirators, who presumably are still @ large and plotting to kill your babies.
Meanwhile, American Taliban John Walker Lindh is serving out his hand-slap sentence that resulted from a plea bargain. It pays to be a rich white boy in America, as fellow American citizens Jose Padilla and Mr. Hamzi could surely testify. Both of them are being held incommunicado in hellish military brigs. Courts have ruled that detaining them this way forever is perfectly legal. Same goes for hundreds of suspected terrorists being held (and tortured) without charges down in Cuba. Well, maybe not forever. Once the War on Muslim Terrorists comes to a neat and tidy close, they can be released. Right.
Something isn't quite right with this picture, clearly. What in the hell should be done with these people? Shouldn't there at least be some uniformity in how we deal with them? What if we capture the big fish, as appears increasingly likely? What do we do with him?
comments (14)
well all that, I think, makes several comments of US government about conventions and human rights sound funny.
"look who's talking" is the phrase that jumps to mind.
by necropethamenos at March 28, 2003 12:04 PM
The reason why they are being held in the manner they are is, according to the government, because they belong to no recognized army, and the 9/11 attack was targeted specifically at non-combatents (innocents) that they are not elligible for protections under the Geneva Convention.
Still, there were just 16 detainees released this week, when it was determined they weren't involved with Al-Queda. An article I read earlier in the this week (but due to the ephemeral nature of the web I haven't been able to find again to point out here), interviewed the released prisoners. Each said they were treated very well. Basically, the gist of the article was that if, as a prisoner, you didn't talk shit and make trouble, you were treated very humanely. This is no different from any other jail in this country. The worst someone said had happened is that they got hit with a water cannon after mouthing off. Compare that to the Brittish soldiers captured and killed in Iraq this week, or Daniel Pearl. I'm sure Guantanomo isn't a Ramada Inn, it is prison after all, but these people have it better than you can imagine, and don't have to live in fear for their lives. Even recognizing that they are in prison, several of the released detainees said that their life in jail in Guantanomo was better than their life free in Afghanistan.
by mg at March 28, 2003 12:49 PM
ok, I'll shut up about that because:
1) you might be right about that, I'm not properly informed about the subject.
2) I think everyone must think by now I'm a media driven fanatic and I'm not.
so I'll just shut up :)
(plus, thanx for intelligent conversation for the past 12345234623 comments about the war)
by necropethamenos at March 28, 2003 1:40 PM
Necro, thank you. I was totally losing faith that any anti-war people would ever say, "Gosh, I'm ill informed about aspect X, so I wont talk about it. " Instead, whenever it seems like someone hasn't known their ass from their elbow, they've decided in stead to just yell about how evil Bush is.
You haven't done that. You didn't know about something and actually admitted it, and that takes a lot of balls.
I also don't think you are a nut. I think that the we both view media from more than one aspect. I read more than just American news, and you read more than just Greek news. And you come here and relay what you've been seen and learned from your cultural perspective, me from mine. We've both listened and shared, and hopefully didn't get too angry or belligerent about it. For that, we are both a lot closer to understanding what is really going on here than we were before. Thanks.
by mg at March 28, 2003 3:36 PM
Holy Shyte. I could care less if this War ends takes my life, I only care if it ends my career. I could care less about Johnny 'Poor Man's Lawrence of Arabia' or Padilla or Hamzi, my month has now been substantially annihilated because of one fucking cocksmack day of bullshit trading due to this dumbfuck, I'm sorry. Um. I would love to beat the shit out of Johnny Trust Fund Dreamer, for all you Manhattan/NYC BadSemites, Lockheed is going to bust an acoustic guitar over the first LIBERAL HIPPIE he sees playing IMAGINE at Strawberry Fields in Central Park. I'm gonna destroy some Peace Protesting, No Candy for War, Civil Disobedient Bitch, fucking move to MExico if you have gripe with the States. Lockheed says in rage: Go AMERICA! GO ISRAEL! THERE'S no turning back, so you better WIN, WIN, WIN, and drop the 21000lb MOAB and get this fucking FREEMARKET working properly again. The fact that the EURO still trades well above Par with the old U.S. greenback makes Lockheed sick to the point of no Return. Somebody said, I would become bad one day... perhaps, they are correct...
by LOCKHEED at March 28, 2003 4:11 PM
Is he always like that? Is he on something? Did he mean something by all that? Should I get back to school to understand?
by necropethamenos at March 28, 2003 4:19 PM
Alexander says Lockheed is sometimes like this, sometimes like Al, sometimes he is Alex or bbobooheed. Just ignore me if I annoy you, NECRO. I just remember way back when, while I was living in Macedonia, I loved the Greeks, and everything Greek. Apparently, there is a hi-jacked Turkish passenger plane...I only hope it doesn't crash of ATHEN'S Airspace. I'd be really pissed off if they fuck with Athens. That was my home long ago in linear time. The Oracle at Delphi was my Sister's husband.
by LOCKHEED at March 28, 2003 5:30 PM
Shit, it's in Greece's airspace. I swear to Apollo, if they mess with pagan power, every vinetree will rot. Just drop the MOAB for the VIP crew! vanilla ice posee. They keep showing cheering pump fisting IRAQis getting humanitarian aid, And I kept thinking vanilla ice was rapping for them.
by boobooheed at March 28, 2003 5:36 PM
While I appreciate the comments about what conditions these prisoners are being held in, my real point had to do with fairness and uniformity. Trust me, I don't care if they line up every "enemy combatant" and "detainee" and shoot them like those 4 American POWs. But each person who fits either description should be treated the same way. Both Walker-Lindh and Hamzi were captured fighting w/ the Taliban. Other than race and money, what could possibly account for the difference i.e. cozy plea bargain vs. lifetime imprisonment w/o the nicety of a trial or lawyer or right to appeals? I'd defy anyone to defend the US government's patchwork policy on this issue.
by Anna at March 28, 2003 6:25 PM
Oh, and on a more personal note, I'd pose a question to Necro. No, not whether they separate the men from the boys w/ a crowbar in Greece, as that old joke goes. I wonder if it's true that ordinary Greeks and Turks have it in for one other, as the media portrays it. If so, I'm w/ the Greeks. Anna no like them double-crossing Turks.
by Anna at March 28, 2003 6:41 PM
I never said you were annoying lockheed (or al or whatever), just that I don't understand what you're saying when youre writing everything and nothing at once!
And yes, there's a 196 ppl plane with a hijacker on it called abdulah whatever landed in athens airport. He's filled up with plastic explosives (or so he says).
The flight comes from turkey. Man, this is bad. I'm afraid we're gonna be seeing a lot of that in the future.
What's worse, we don't know what he WANTS and I'm not sure if knows it either!
by necropethamenos at March 28, 2003 6:45 PM
Well, it's true about the Greeks-Turks relationship. And it's not as simple as you might think.
Greece was under the Othoman empire for about 400 years. (of course it was under Byzantium before that but no modern historian thinks that's bad, don't know why...).
Then Greeks revolted and, after lots and lots of wars and treaties with europe etc they (we) got their own country back.
Of course the "their own country" part is, for me, a bit vague, cause after 400 years I'm not sure there's "my country" anymore, but I can't complain, it's far better than in turkey over here right now.
On the other hand Turks didn't like a piece of their empire gone. So there began this hatred over the centuries between Turks and Greeks.
And it would all be over by now if early in the 20th century the Greeks hadn't tried to get the REST of before-turks-Greece back (i.e. Constantinople or Instabul). Which was really stupid. Another war with no reason. Of course they didn't succeed.
Well, after that matter was resolved (treaties etc) Turks woke up one morning and slaughtered all Greeks in "Smyrni" (of which I don't know the english name) a very very rich place with very very rich greek population. Those who survived came back to Greece. Once again, innocents paid for the madness of the Greek and then the Turkish Government.
As you can imagine that kept hatred burning on. Years passed and a dicatorship was established in Greece. (in the 60's). During this time Turkey had its Army-controlled democracy (...) established (which is in control until now as you can see through the bargains with the us and their pressure to invade northern iraq).
And then they invaded Cyprus. Well Cyprus was not a part of Greece though. But ppl there are, well, were at least Greeks. Then the dictatorship in Greece fell and a socialist goverment was formed and it lasts until now. (Well, a socialist government with quite capitalistic tactics but I will whine about it elsewhere)
The moral of it all: With so many conflicts that last till 30 yars ago, well, it's hatred, hatred and more hatred.
The good thing about it is that it now seems (or seemed before the war) to fade. I went in the UK several times (a month each) to visit my girlfriend when she was studying there and I met LOTS of turks and we got along better than with most Greeks.
But I suppose it's just because of the neutral ground and the fact that I (and those specific cases) were rational enough to see beyond "inherited hatred" and I don't think many ppl over here or there can think that way.
Sorry about bad english and the length of my comment :/
by necropethamenos at March 28, 2003 7:12 PM
Man, that was informative as hell. Thanks. And please quit apologizing about your English, it's better than 1/3 the people here who speak none @ all. (More on that to come and yes Eviltom I am telegraphing my next post.)
by Anna at March 28, 2003 7:23 PM
I would like to say that in the text you are saying that greece was under the othoman empire for 400 years and i agree. But you make a big mistake. Greece wasnt under Byzantium, because Byzantium since 6th century was Greek empir.e
by chris at February 16, 2006 3:54 PM